Please welcome
Senior Director,
Cross-Cloud
Evangelism, Salesforce,
hello, everyone. Our
guest today is one
of the most versatile
storytellers of his
generation. You
may know him as an
Academy Award
-nominated actor for his
unforgettable role as
Mark Zuckerberg in The
Social Network and
films like Zombieland,
as well as his most
recent film, A Real
Pain. Beyond acting,
he's also a celebrated
playwright, author,
and filmmaker.
He's also known for
his wit, honesty,
and willingness to
bring vulnerability
to his work, and
his qualities that
connect deeply with
audiences navigating
the complexities
of modern life.
welcoming Jesse
Eisenberg.
Thank you. Hi. Thank
you so much for having
me. Well, I'm very
excited, specifically
because storytelling
is such an important
part of business, of
life, of creativity.
And when we think
about this session,
it's called Breaking
the Script. So can
you tell us how has
storytelling impacted
you, not just in
your career, but
in how you connect
with people in life?
Thank you so much,
and thank you
for coming today,
and thank you
for having me
here. Yeah, for me,
you know, stories and
fiction is my favorite
way to engage with
other people, which I
recognize as probably
some kind of social
limitation because I
always say I would so much
prefer, you know, sitting
around with friends
trying to figure out
a story to tell than
talking, you know, small
talk. And I think it
comes from the idea
that I experience all
of my creativity, my
thoughts, my humor, my
values, my system of
ethics through stories.
And so for me, like the
most kind of engaging
way to be with other
people is through
stories, through
fiction. It always was
the way I was able to
express myself. I'm a
shy person. I think
like a lot of actors,
people are often
surprised at the paradox
of the extroverted
actor being quite shy.
I am person. And
that is certainly my
personality. But for me,
fiction and creativity
was always a way for
me to express myself.
That's incredible. So
when you think about
the creativity and
the storytelling, does
it make you look at
world or situations
differently when you
encounter different
things? Yeah, that's
such a great question.
I like the most extreme
example of that for
me is like, I've played
villains in movies.
One of them is... Lex
Luthor was a great one
yes oh thanks a lot yes
yes yes um and people
who might be villains
um and um you know
i and and what's
interesting about that is
that as an actor you're
the only one on the
set you're the only one
in the whole process
that has to try to
kind of live in those
shoes and for me as
an actor i get really
engaged in my roles
and really emotionally
invested and when you're
playing a character that
other characters don't
like and that are
maybe kind of maladaptive
or doing something
bad in the world you
have to like justify
that completely
emotionally intellectually
and it's really
interesting like by putting
yourself into the shoes
of somebody who is you
know diametrically
opposed to you in every
way uh forces you to
empathize and so you
know um so i i've written
plays for 10 years
and i just am editing
my third movie that i
wrote and directed
and i find myself when
i'm writing kind of
putting myself in the shoes
of every character
even the characters
that to the audience are
antagonistic and it's
just a way to create
you know empathy for
me but also for the
audience it's really
special when the audience
can understand like a
villain in a movie
audiences love villains
that they can understand
and they don't
connect to movies as much
when the villain seems
like this amorphous
blob of evil yeah well
that and that brings
me to my next question
i love film so i'm
really glad i get to do
this i i have a movie
pass so we see things
that we normally
wouldn't. I turned one of
my spare rooms into a
media room. So we really
watch a lot. And when
I saw a real pain,
when I tell you I went
through every single
emotion, right? I
laughed, I cried. And
the one that got me
the most was when you
feel it in your gut,
you suck air a little
bit, when you see some
of these things. So
you balance grief,
family tension in that
film with humor and
levity so well. So how do
you find the line
between letting people
laugh without diminishing
what is painful?
That's so nice
of you to say.
Yeah, with The Real Pain,
the movie is kind
of like based on my
family's history. My
family was, you know,
partly in Poland
during the war and, you
know, obviously suffered
there. And, you know,
but the way I kind of
like engage with the
world is typically
through humor. and, you
know, the family I grew
up in, a family that
comes from, you know,
tragedies and stuff.
Also, the currency in
my house was humor, and
it's partly because
it's fun and it engages
in kind of, like, wit
and kind of intellectual
gaming, but also because
that's oftentimes
the way you cope with
tragic situations.
And I am, like, a
depressive, and I find
that, you know,
humor at least makes
me feel... Because, you
know, the interesting
thing about being
a depressive and,
like, kind of a
cynic is that like
humor is like the
fun flip side of that
stuff because you
have a kind of world
weariness that can be
funny. Um, and, uh,
you know, so, which
is why I don't trust
comedians who are, who
are happy. And, um,
um, you know, so
anyway, so humor
became like the
currency. And so a
real pain is kind
of my expression
of the family
that I grew up in,
both the tragedy and
the humor of it. So
bringing back to one of
your previous answers,
you know when you're
writing or playing
a character that is
just completely opposite
of you i think that's
a little bit similar
to laughing in the
face of grief or right
it just brings you
back to the opposite
effect so just switching
you out of that
mode as fast as possible
and because i know
i do i i cope with
laughter a lot so yes yes
um so as a follow-up
question for The Real
Pain, like, as a
creator, how does it feel
to have written and
created something that
led to a fellow actor
receiving an Academy
Award? What did that
feel like for you?
Oh, it's both,
you know, you see
no benefit from
it, but, you know,
you know, but I
suppose in some
broader way and
through years
of therapy, I
will come to
um no no no no it's
like look it's the
greatest thing in the
world you know the
first play i wrote i
was first play i wrote
i was 22 years old
and the lead the lead
actor in the play
was vanessa redgrave
she is like if you
don't know she's like
considered like the
greatest actress in the
english language
right now and um you
know so she was in my
first play and just
hearing her say the
lines it was like this
kind of surreal thing
because you know
you know you're kind
of you know you don't
you just don't foresee
something you write
being treated in this
kind of illustrious way
and similar in the
real pain kieran was so
brilliant on set so
the real kind of treat
for me was just watching
this thing that had
been in my head for
years kind of come alive
in this incredible
way and he's a really
brilliant actor very
engaged really funny and
interesting guy and
so um all of the other
stuff was quite nice
but the real treat for
me is kind of like the
actual doing of the
thing as i was saying
earlier like the way i
like to engage with
friends socially is
through, like, kind of
work, through, like,
talking about creative
things. And so to work
with Kieran on the movie
was great, because he
was so amazing in
person, you know. And we
like each other very
much, but, like, the
peak of our kind of
relationship was through
work, which I find,
again, it might be a
character flaw of
mine, but that's all my
relationships peak in
kind of these fictional
settings. And then I
see people a year later,
and we don't really
know what to talk about.
But again, that's my
character flaw. They're
all great people. I
think it's just the way
I engage in the world
is just through like
stories. Yeah. And, you
know, in all of your
works, even when I
think about the way
I've watched you interview,
I feel like every
time you respond, there's
this almost emotional
connection immediately
to that question.
You can draw on some
type of experience and
then in your work you
you zoom in in these
tiny awkward wonderful
deeply human interactions
that most people
might overlook so the
way you described
your interaction with
your friends and things
like that and where
where do you draw the
inspiration that creativity
when you're writing
because it seems
like it's a little bit
different but you just
connect so much into
those emotional pieces?
How do you do that?
Oh, thank you. That's
a very generous analysis
of my personality.
Yeah. Normally
people diagnose
being very
generous. My second
career. Okay. Got
it. Yeah. And I
imagine no bill
will come of this
because it was
just a compliment.
the things that I
don't understand
about myself.
I know that's,
that's probably
narcissism by another
name or maybe by
the same name.
It's narcissism
by the same name.
But yeah, like I just
am like, I just, you
know, I, you know,
the current movie I'm
writing is about Guatemala
because I went to like
help out in Guatemala
and I realized while
I was helping out
there that I was of no
use. You know, I didn't,
I couldn't do the
cement that, that fast.
And so like i realized
like oh i'm not actually
a great helper here
but i also recognize
i'm in my intentions
are quite good you know
i'm trying to do this
thing because going
on a vacation where i
sit on a beach seems
unethical to me and so
um and it makes me
depressed and i don't tan
well so i so i thought
okay i'll do this
other thing which is like
helpful but i'm actually
not helpful there
and maybe i'm more
valuable sitting on the
beach because at least
i'm like spending more
money on the beach
and it's probably
contributing to a local
economy in a more
effective way and here i am
slowly and poorly mixing
cement and you know
and i'm like kind of
consumed with this thing
because of my narcissism
by the same name
and so like i i so i
start so this is what i
write about and again
it just comes from me
not being able to figure
something out in my
life and because i'm
funny the movies can
come out entertaining
as opposed to just navel
gazing if i wasn't a
funny person the movies
would be just like
these kind of you know
boring diary entries
but um because i have
this obsequious nature
to make people laugh
because of flaws from
my childhood i find
that it's possible to
tell a good story thank
you well you are
absolutely excellent at it
and so and you've also
written plays short
story collections you
have a new play uh as
well and directed these
award-winning films
based on the way you
are and your experience
and your personality
does one medium feel
more just in tune to
you than any other what
are you drawn to yeah
um i i am driven you
know in in part by
a real kind of like
inspired creative inner
life and also just by
like the fear of being
somebody in a freelance
profession and i know
maybe it sounds like
false humility to
call myself freelance
because I'm like a
successful person but like
every job I do ends
in a period of like a
brief period of time and
then you have to find
a new job and like so
it's kind of like a
weird tenuous relationship
to feeling like
uh being in a stable
industry if that makes
sense so like currently
I'm doing like a one
-man show that I wrote
I'm doing it in New
York every Monday
through the rest of the
year and I and like
I'm also editing my new
movie which is like a
musical and so I'm like
I do all these things
and it seems like you
know wow a prolific
inspired person but
inside it's like i feel
like one thing is going
to fail but if i have
like enough plates
balanced then maybe
one won't break and um
i think maybe that's
like a very modern kind
of feeling too it's
so relatable right i
think we are all like
if we have multiple
things going on we're
safe right it's like a
safety net yes and i
wonder how healthy it is
no no because as i'm
talking about i'm talking
about it here and i'm
thinking about this
for the first time
being in san francisco
which is like you know
a place where like
you know the gig economy
was created and people
are doing like a
million things to stay
afloat and I wonder
if like I'm doing the
same thing but like I
wouldn't compare myself
to that because I you
know I make probably
more money you know
but like I do have this
feeling of like no no
no I mean I'm not like
struggling in any way
you know I can't put
myself in the position
of somebody who's
like struggling with
you know three jobs to
make a living I'm but
I'm doing it maybe
inspired by a similar
thing of like something
about it feels tenuous
I don't really ever
feel like secure in
my profession I'm in a
union and to get health
insurance through the
Screen Actors Guild
but like five years ago
I didn't like work
for like a year and my
you don't hit your
minimums you don't get your
insurance exactly my
plan was like demoted
and so like I look
like a famous actor but
like my plan was like
you know I can't get
glasses and so um and
so I really do feel
like I'm in this kind
of unstable profession
as great as it is for
me and I'm the luckiest
person in the world
etc you know whatever
but like um you know
um no but like really
it does feel like it
feels more tenuous
than it does feel
stable. Yeah. Yeah. And
so we're here in San
Francisco. We're going
to talk a little bit
about tech. I think,
you know, thinking about
the social network,
I think it's one of
the first times that
it really caused
audiences to look at how
social media impacts
our lives in a critical
way, shaping,
impacting, destroying
relationships at times.
And so, you know, looking
back 15 years later,
do you see that film
differently now than
when you were in it?
What a great
question. And
I'd probably say
no in the sense
that I was terrified
of it then.
Yeah, I mean, you
know, when I was doing
the movie, what I
was really thinking
about was like, what
is going on with
my character? And I
was thinking about
it from my character's
perspective.
And what I felt was
like, you know, here is
a person that I was
playing. And I'm thinking
of I'm like a character.
I don't know the
real person, so I can't
speak to that at all.
But I'll speak to
myself as an actor. I'm
playing this person who
feels very uncomfortable
in living in, like,
the traditional
social environment, you
know, where, you know,
you're in a group of
people and you have to
make your presence
known through normal
traditional social
interactions and behaviors.
And so this person who
felt that way created
this thing kind of to
make them feel more
comfortable. and and
that thing uh kind of
just creates like a new
weird avid not weird
a new avenue to interact
so it's oh you like
x i like x we can now
talk and and that's
really wonderful in
a lot of ways but for
me i just felt like
it had come from this
feeling of being on the
outside and and and it
felt like just felt
like there was a bit
of a cheat to it you
know like i could do
things this way and for
a lot of people probably
including myself
because I'm like an
introverted kind of
person like that way of
socializing can be
really beneficial but it
really does lose something
and the thing that
it loses scared me um
at the time I signed
on to like Facebook for
like 25 seconds when
I was rehearsing for
the movie so I could
just see what the program
looks like or whatever
and like I got an
email right away saying
we think you would
be friends with this
person. And the person
it suggested was like
a friend of my sister's
from high school.
And it just so freaked
me out that they had
made that connection,
which now looks quite
tame compared to what
connections can be
made. And I remember
just thinking, this is
not the way I feel I
want to interact in the
world. I don't have
such social needs to
begin with that I need
to have, you know, 200
people who I used to
know still in my life.
You know, so for
me, it didn't feel
like the right
way to socialize.
And I kind of still
feel that way.
And so I'm not on any
of the platforms, but
I will, this is like
a big, big caveat is
that I'm like an, I'm
a known person. And so
I think if I wasn't
like a famous person,
probably I would really
like that. Probably I
would be on, you know,
social media trying
to make jokes and have
people, but like my
whole life is quite
exposed. And so for me, I
really value my privacy
and protect my privacy
in a way that if I
wasn't a known actor,
I don't think I would
have those concerns.
So I probably have a
very specific personal
answer, but then also
kind of just seeing it
from the outside
perspective as well. Yeah,
it definitely has had
quite an impact. And
I think, you know, being
here in this conference,
the speed in which
tech has changed
just in the past 12
months. You know, when you
were mentioning that
you use AI in your
personal life to kind
of get you organized and
things like that. But
it also is having an
impact across different
industries, including
media and entertainment.
So when you think
about digital and how
it's changing the way
we communicate as a
storyteller, can you
give us just, you know,
how do you use it as a
collaboration tool?
Are there things that,
you know, you think it
risks or what are you
excited about that it
might be able to do?
So my main interaction
with tech is like,
I'm a, I love
ChatGPT. I'm on it all
day for things in the
realms of academia.
I'm curious about,
you know, like I have
a thought about
something. I'm like,
has this ever been
thought about? There
must be 10 college
theses on this weird
passing thought I
had. Give me those and
what are they? And
that's fascinating.
sigh of relief last night
when I asked it
to look at a scene
that I had written
because I'm about
to do reshoots
on this movie I'm
editing. And the
scene was terrible.
Like, ChatGPT's scene
was terrible. And I
breathed a huge sigh
of relief because it
meant that we that and
it was so pretentious
it was I it was so
pretentious and it was like
it said something in
like the action part
was like he smiles
she does not and I was
like that's the worst
thing I've ever seen
written you know and I
wrote to it I was like
do you see how that's
pretentious and it
said like oh I could
understand what you're
saying the kind of
glibness that I use and I
was like yes you're
right it was glib and
I said do it again and
don't be pretentious
and it said he smiles
she looks but does not
and i was like nope
still terrible and so
i i don't i'm not
worried that chat gpt or
whatever you know
insert any other name
there um is like doing
what i'm doing yet
you know but it's
definitely going to do
something and it's
definitely better than
what it than what it
was like two years ago
um but like no i
think all writers live
with this fear hanging
over them like at
some point this is going
to be less pretentious
or the pretentious
writer is going oh
my god this is exactly
what i would do um
so um making that film
yeah exactly he smiles
she does not like
i wish i thought of
that um it's so cool
that he's smiling but
then she doesn't um
for me it's like the
worst thing i've read
but so like uh i'm i'm
like i still have hope
that you know there
are there's room for
you know when i write
um like my new movie
is a musical and it
takes place in this
kind of crazy world and
like it came from like
an unconscious place
of me thinking about
parts of my life
and interesting things
you could do with the
camera. And it seems
very, very human in
a way that I'd be
surprised if AI caught up
to. So I think I'm
safe for now, but I
don't know, maybe we'll
be here next year and
I will be, you know,
in a less nice suit.
Well, I think some
of it too is it
doesn't feel, right?
That connection,
the reason why people
respond so well to
your work is because
of that connection.
Like, you have a
way to tap into just
the common things
that people go through
in a way that's,
like, so real that
ChatGPT can't do that
for you, so. We hope.
We hope. Or are we
all a simulation and
I'm just reflecting
what I've heard? You
know, this is a
complicated question that
I plan on asking
ChatGPT about later.
The philosophical
discussions. You should
record those and see
how it goes. So, yeah.
You know, imposter
syndrome is always so
real. And in business,
I think we see leaders,
they feel pressure
to be very polished,
in control. But your
work has demonstrated
that audience connects
most with the,
when people show their
flaws, right? Like
they're real. what
can leaders learn from
storytelling when
you think about that
structure that you go
through turning that
vulnerability into
influence versus being
scared of showing it
yeah it's interesting
you know I think
goodness what can leaders
learn from storytelling
that we as audiences
but also the other
characters in the
movie tend to respond
to people who seem
like vulnerable human
beings you know when
we watch a movie the
characters we connect
to are often vulnerable
they are not um
you know they're
they're they're not like
uh you know statues
um and so for me
like I've been now
like a leader I'm
putting it in quotes
because I don't deserve
non-quotes around
leader um and um you
know I'm like
directing these movies
now and they're big
things you know I mean
I have like 150
employees on a movie.
And like, I just
feel, always feel very
comfortable just having
like kind of normal
interactions with people
and kind of expressing
anxiety, hearing
other people express
their anxiety. Because
to me, that's how like
I can do my best work.
And it seems to me
how other people do
their best work. I've
worked on sets, like
not as a director, but
as an actor where
people are terrified of
the director. No one's
doing a good job.
Everybody is panicked.
No one's happy but even
more than not being
happy they're not doing
like good work they're
doing work that's
based out of fear
and if you're in any
profession but especially
a creative one it's
like a death you know
that's like a death
um and so to me when
now i am in positions
of like leadership
directing producing these
movies that i make
um like i just do the
opposite and i've just
had amazing experiences
um i directed three
movies in the last
four years and like
every experience has just
been amazing we've
finished early under
budget on all three
and with the same crew
who like i love and
who love me like i mean
i'm hoping assuming
um you know yeah they
all like love me um
no no like i mean like
they're my friends too
you know and so like
um yeah to me that
is like my version of
leadership um i as an
actor shut down when
i'm working for like
a director who is like
really tough i just
shut down uh because i'm
terrified right and
so i think that we all
experience that I
think the true magic
comes when people are
willing to take risks.
And if you're scared,
you are not going
to take that risk
because you want to
hold on. You're
juggling all those
plates because you
want to make sure you
always have something
that is working.
I think it perpetuates
what we talked about
earlier, where you're
constantly making
sure that you've
got something that's
working. And so you
just take on too much.
Exactly. That's a great
way to put it. And
I'll also say,
like, the person who
designed the costumes
on my last movie, this
woman, Stacy, like,
she's an amazing costume
designer. I know
nothing. You obviously
know a lot about
clothing, but I don't,
you know, um, it's
all target. And, um,
you know, like,
and like, so I
don't know anything
about that.
So I'm watching
this incredible
person design these
costumes. If I were to
like, kind of dictate
to her, you know,
I let her get, you
know, she had complete
free reign and I said,
you know, just what
are you inspired by?
What are you thinking
about? And she was
amazing because she
had that free reign.
She told me, thank you
so much. Normally
directors come in with
X, Y, and Z because
they have some vague
ideas of what people
wear, and I feel totally
constricted. And so
the movie was better
for it. And she
did her best work.
Absolutely. Great for
it. Yeah, absolutely.
Clearly this was inspired
by Interview with a
Vampire, just in case
you were wondering.
Oh, does that make
me the vampire? Yeah.
I love it. Okay,
so final question.
Instead of advice
to your younger
self, because
we typically
ask those, let's
look forward.
What keeps you
excited to create new
stories and keep going.
And then when you
think about legacy,
is there any impact
that you hope your
work leaves behind?
Thank you for asking
that question. It
makes me want to call
an estate lawyer.
You know, I, yeah, you
know, I don't know.
You know, I'm married
to like an activist.
She's, she, she, my
wife teaches disability
justice. She teaches
formerly incarcerated
kids. She's like a
great person and she no
one knows who she is and
i walk down the block
you know i'll pick
her up from you know
teaching the neediest
people in our city and
i walk outside with
her and people come up
to me and say you've
changed my life thank
you so much and i'm like
oh that's definitely
not true and sorry
and like um you know
and so like when i
think about like kind of
like what can i do i
don't know you know i
think like i want to
make things that are
thoughtful um i want to
make things that like,
you know, um, have
a kind of, I don't
know, because I don't
want to make movies that
are explicitly political
because I often
think that politically
explicit movies don't
resonate with audiences
because they can
kind of see that
they're being talked to
and they feel didactic
and they're bored and
they turn off to them.
And so when I think
about what kind of
stuff I want to make,
I want to make stuff
that, um, can bring
out a sense of empathy
that can exercise
audiences feelings
of empathy. Um, which
sometimes means having
characters that are
not totally likable,
like Kieran Culkin
plays in this movie, a
character that's kind
of tough to take,
but by the end, our
heart opens for him.
And to me, I feel like
that's kind of like
exercising an empathy
muscle in audiences.
And I think that's
probably something I
could do better than,
for example, be more like
politically stringent
or explicit. Yeah,
I think your work,
when you think about
like the audiences,
what you give us is a
little bit of relatability,
escape. You give
us a way to connect
and to think, how would
I act in that situation?
How would I connect
with my family member?
And it's almost like
being able to see it
ahead of time gives
you the opportunity to
decide. So if I ever
encountered what I watched,
how I would react is
now something that
I know, right? And which
I wouldn't have known
had I not seen that.
And I think the way
you tell family
stories really makes a
difference. So nice of
you to say. Yeah, I guess
that makes sense. You
know, it's interesting
because I always think
like, what is it that
we can all do best
in? And like, so I've
tried to like teach in
my wife's class and I'm
like very bad. Like, I
don't know what it is
about me. I'm not a
good teacher. Like, I
don't know what happens
to me. I feel like
all the kids want to
beat me up. And I think,
I think what happens to
me is that I just get
all these kind of like
Pavlovian flashbacks
to being back in class
and feeling terrified.
And so I'm a bad
teacher. Whereas my wife
was well liked in
school. So I think she
walks into a classroom
thinking that's going
to happen again. And it
does. And so like, um,
I kind of think like,
okay, what can I do?
You know, what can I
do? What is the thing
I do best? And like,
I think like through
kind of accessible
movies that have like a
thoughtfulness to them.
I think that's probably
maybe where my talents
and value lies. Well,
um, just to wrap up,
I will also tell you
that I learned that
the number one rule is
cardio. And I know if
there is ever a zombie
apocalypse, y'all can
just push me over and
get a head start because
that's not going to
happen me too me too
it's the one acting you
know exercise i really
didn't get into was
the running for that
movie i've engaged with
all of my characters
except the ones who are
physically fit yeah
well we truly appreciate
you being here for
sharing your story for
sharing your vulnerability
and your art with
us today so So everyone,
please thank Jesse
Eisenberg. Thank you,
thank you, thank you.
Yeah, thank you, Carolyn.
That's so sweet.
Thank you so much.
I hope I didn't
make everybody
depressed. Okay, bye-bye.
