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All right, getting
into the real thick of
things, Joe, you have
had roles in many
organizations and super
cool organizations, Major
League Baseball, Disney,
and you get to see
the best of all things
and the worst of all
things. You've had
face-planting moments.
Now, you're on the
other side where you're
meeting with a lot of
customers, and you're
probably starting to see
some of those patterns.
What are some of the
patterns that you're
seeing with regards to
successful organizations
that are moving on
their way to become
a gentic enterprise
and those that are not?
It's a great
question. I'll give
you an answer
that I haven't
said before, but
I think is true.
You can almost tell
by the customer who's
being told they need
to use AI versus who
wants to use AI. And so
I think there's boards
and CEOs and things
like that are putting
a lot of pressure on
the technology groups
to move. And some people
aren't yet comfortable
with it. And you can
sense that unease.
I think we can help
with that. It's our job
to try to help with
that to make them feel
more comfortable but
I think it starts
with that attitude of
like I really want to
do this or I feel
like I have to do this
and you know you want
a little bit of both
you probably do have
to do it but you also
really should want to
do it so I think that's
the biggest part but
just understanding
yes it's new it's
different it's scary but
it's also incredibly
liberating because
it's a blank canvas
like nobody knows what
the right way to do
this is we're all still
experimenting but these
patterns are emerging
and the one thing
that I think is
indelible about this
transition is the In fact,
the builder has never
been more powerful.
And as a CIO, you
don't just have to be
the cost center. You can
actually be delivering
revenue now. So
it's just a very
different way of thinking
about it. But the
upside is enormous
if you give in to the
fact that it is going
to be very different.
You've called out
something that is very
relevant. It's this
thing that boards are
now demanding. Its
CEOs are leaning in and
saying, we have to
have an AI use case. We
have to do AI. We
have to do AI. To the
point where AI has
almost become the thing,
not the enabler. Yeah.
And yet two, three
years ago, AI has
been around for years
and years and years.
Maybe two, three years
ago is when it really
became mainstream.
If we were to
erase AI, what's
still on the
minds of CIOs?
What keeps you
up at night if it
isn't the implementation
of agents?
Yeah, I think that's a
good question. I think,
you know, the same
things, if you know
agents exist, especially,
but if you take them
out of the mix, you
still are worried about
data. You know, it's
context, it's data,
it's meeting the users
where they're at, all
of which is harder
without AI, by the way.
But I think that whole
notion of it is that
you really want to
still create these
incredible rich experiences
and you have to have
the data, but it's just
so much harder now.
Like we're moving
so, so much faster
on it. And I was
telling somebody,
like, part of this
is I was saying,
like, you know,
when I was younger,
you know, living on my
own, have my own place,
I used to have to,
like, get a phone book
and call a restaurant
on the telephone and
talk to a human being
to get food. And if it
wasn't a pizza, I
probably had to get in my
car and then drive
and get that pizza or
get that food so I could
come back. Once you
order on an app and it
just sort of shows up
like magic, like you
can't even imagine a
world without it. Right.
So I think that people
are still worried
about the same things.
But for me, the
thought experiment is
even hard now at
this point in time
because I'm like, well,
I don't want to go
back to calling on
the phone for food.
I want to just open
my app and do it.
Now, you have a
unique position, and
you've got both a
product role, but you've
also got, like, I
will call it the tech
C-suite of all
tech C-suite roles.
You've got all of the
CIOs, CDAO, you know,
you name it, Chief
Digital under you.
Now, one thing that
I'm seeing is, of
course, in the earlier
stages, it was all
about get a business
use case in production.
Get a business use
case in production.
So that was really
maybe around
marketing, ops, sales,
service, marketing.
And now I think
we're starting to see
a bit more of a
shift to, say, CIOs.
This is an analogy.
If you're a
frequent flyer, you
are. I know I am.
You've got to put
your mask on first.
Right. And to the extent
that you are putting
your own mask on, how
much are you balancing,
how much you're
building use cases for
the business, say,
marketing, sales, service,
versus use cases that
are enabling your
organization to become
more efficient, more
effective, so you're
creating that capacity
to be able to build
faster for the business.
Yeah, I think that's
an astute point,
and I think when you
think about it in an
enterprise context,
a lot of people were
really grounded on
those use cases,
like sales, marketing,
support. They're
all great use cases.
You know, I plugged
it in the town hall
yesterday. I think
the help.putyourcompanynamein
.com example
is something everybody
should be using
because I think
it's just a slam
dunk use case.
You're going to get
the ROI. You're
going to learn a
lot. It's a great
way of doing it.
But I think when you
start to move beyond
that and you start to
look at these other
use cases, I think
the more that you're
touching your customers,
it's exciting.
But the put your
mask on first,
I think we're now
in a situation
where the notion
of writing code and
how you develop
software or how you
configure software
is just changed.
I mean, it really is
different now. It's
not like a subtle
change. it's just oh wow
like we could just write
a bunch of software
and so then thinking
about like how do
you manage tokens is
going to be that you
know tokens yeah i
i tell people like
tokens are the new
headcount not that you're
going to get rid of
the people but because
the way in which you
thought about your
budget is now going
to be very much saying
like okay well you
know i have to make
these people productive
so this is like a
necessary thing for
them like oxygen i can't
just hire a developer
and you think about
if you were a
developer and you were
interviewing with a
company and you're like,
now in the future,
it's going to be, well,
what's my token budget?
Right. Like, oh,
well, half a million
a month. You're like,
oh, I mean, I wouldn't
touch it for less than
a million tokens a
month, you know? Yeah.
And so I think that
thing is changing, but
I think that's the
part, because the other
stuff was important,
but it was all things
that you were doing
just faster and better.
This is different.
It's like completely
revolutionized the way
you think about
deploying technology now.
So it's come home in
a way that hits. And
as it turns out, like
at least for right
now, Now, coding is
the killer use case for
these large models.
They are just better
at it now than a lot
of people are, and the
scale of it is
undeniable. And so I think
that's the biggest
thing is just if you
have people that are
sitting down every day
and they're going to
IDE new file and then,
like, trying to
write code, it seems
artisanal. It does, yeah.
And that wasn't true
six months ago. And
you've only touched on
one, maybe one primary
part of the organization
within a tech
organization, which is
the developers, but
then you think about
the IT help desks with
Agent Force IT Service
and being able to
bring so much more
productivity instead
of looking for patterns
of things that are
broken, those patterns
being surfaced, instead
of doing password
resets, that being
completed autonomously.
No, I think that's
right. I mean, if
you think about
the help desk role,
you start pulling
on the thread and
it gets more and
more interesting.
So for example,
like, okay, well,
you know, step one,
well now, great,
everybody can use Slack,
Everybody should be
using Slack for service,
but everybody uses
Slack, so I have
the conversations. I
know how to swarm. I
could get those things
done. Great, but it's
still humans doing
the work, and then
you're like, boy, it'd
be great if the agents
were looking for a
nominally detection
and all that kind of
stuff that you talked
about, and you're
like, yep, that's
great. What's the third
stage? Why isn't the
agent just fixing it?
Like, why do I
have to fix it?
So then your role as
the help desk person
isn't like the
one-on-one person
support as much and
starts to get into you're
managing digital
labor that's taking
care of these things
for the customer.
And so even that, you
know, we use the term
builders a lot. That's
not a traditionally
a development role,
but you're now a
builder. And you may
actually be using tools
that developers use.
That's why I'm so
fascinated with something
like Cloud Code, because
it's not just a
developer tool. It is a
builder tool. And
obviously we demoed that
with, you know, what we
released in Salesforce
Headless 360
yesterday that we were
talking about, where
it's just one of those
things like everybody
can be a builder. And
do they build the
same thing to the same
level of precision
and things like that?
Obviously not. But like,
that's a great example.
If you're a help desk
person, why aren't
you trying to use these
tools as a builder
to actually solve the
problem proactively?
I think what we released
at TDX yesterday
in the keynote was
pretty foundational.
Like we're using, we're
saying cloud code.
We're using, we're
showing logos of teams,
Now, you and I have
been customers.
We aren't that
far behind in our
journey into
Salesforce. And I know
that as a customer,
I had thought,
Salesforce doesn't
play so well in the
sandbox. That was my
perception, pun intended.
It was, you've got
to buy everything
on Salesforce.
You've got to unify
everything on
Salesforce. And then
you're going to get
all that value. But
what I'm seeing in
a big shift in the
year and a half
that I've been here
is we're starting to
show competitor logos.
I think there's two
things. There's a real
practical standpoint,
which is, I think
Salesforce, Whereas as
we as a company started
to think about agentics
and we started to
think about things
like ITSM, all of a
sudden the CIO became
a really important part
of who we're selling
to, as opposed to
selling to sellers and
marketers and things
like that. Not that the
CIO wasn't important,
but now it's like a
first class set of
products that we're
selling directly to CIOs.
And I think that makes
a big difference.
And so in response
to that, we're here,
right? People like us
exist in the company
that are the practitioners
and bring that
mindset. and I think
these are things that
we've been thinking
about. But I also think
it's the nature of
the industry, right?
SaaS was a great
example of like what
Salesforce did for SaaS
defined the sector and it
was the right way to
do it for the time
without question. But
in this agentic world,
like these agents
deplore silos and the
reality is there's just
so much stuff out there.
You've got to be a
part of it and there's
room for everybody. And
I think when we talk
about the headless
360, what you really
see is like you can take
advantage of all the
salesforce pieces and
i think that we believe
in our hearts that
we still bring in a
tremendous amount of
value and so getting
more people doing that
kind of work is in the
best interest of
salesforce and so it's a
it's a different dynamic
because it's different
buyers and it's a
radically different
way of building things
right we have never
been more decomposable
compatible choose your
lake choose your
warehouse can you can you
give that response too
just because again a
lot of people didn't
realize how people
think that we compete
with Cloud Code. People
think we compete with
Google. People think
we compete with all
of these organizations
that we now have logos
on the slide saying,
no, actually, bring
your lake, bring your
warehouse, bring your
model, bring teams.
Well, first
off, everybody
should use Slack.
But no, I think
the reality is that
this is such a
dislocation in the
technology market that
it would be just an
incredible amount
of hubris to think
that we have all
the right answers.
And so technology is
moving so fast, people
are doing interesting
things. And the last
thing we want to do
is hold our customers
back because our
platform is closed. So I
think by opening up the
platform, participating
in that ecosystem,
driving that ecosystem
in some cases. I mean,
people don't realize
that we're on both
MCP and A2A from a
governance standpoint.
We put out AgentScript
as open source. Like
we're really getting
out there and trying
to participate because
that's what the industry
needs. That's what
our customers need.
That's what we're hearing
from them, and we
want to be responsive.
That's a big eye
-opening aha moment that
I've seen as we talked
to CIOs. They're
like, wow, you
really are starting
to play well with
other partners. It's
no longer that you're
the monolith. Yes,
you can offer many
component parts
that could be a part
of an organization,
but you've become
Lego blocks that
allow us to play
well with others.
I'll give you another
great example. I
think there's analogs in
the hyperscaler world.
But I remember years
back when Google,
GCP, and AWS
came out with
a joint connect product.
So for those who
wanted to connect from
GCP to AWS, they
could do it. And you
look at it, and it's
like, okay, well,
I understand why
they didn't have it.
But clearly,
it's a customer
need for folks
that want to be
multi-cloud, multi
-cloud vendor.
And so they had to
come up with it. And
they realized it was
in the best interest
of both of their
sets of customers.
They were mutual
customers by definition
that they should go
do it. And so I think
when you look at
the panoply of logos
we have, those are
our mutual customers.
And I think we all
need to remember in the
industry that we're
here in service of the
customers and, you
know, at the request of
our customers. It's not
an entitlement we have
for people to use our
software. We need to
provide value. That's
right. And if our
customers are asking about
it, we have to respond.
And like I said, the
thing that's cool
about where we're at
right now with us is by
embracing this, I think
we're also driving
it. And so I think we
are ahead in many ways
on these agentic
workflows and thinking
about all the tools you
need and the agentic
development lifecycle
we showed yesterday.
You're not hearing
that from a lot of our
other sort of image
competitors in this because
I think we're more
further ahead. Like we've
gotten deeper into
these use cases. And
so I think the openness
also comes with huge
opportunity to lead
the industry from a
thought leadership
standpoint, just like Mark
did, you know, two years
ago when he was like,
we're going all agentic.
Like, at the time,
everybody was like,
I don't know, maybe.
And now you look at
it, and you're like,
yeah, of course,
obviously. We're in.
But it wasn't obvious
when he said it. So,
Joe, when you came
over to Salesforce,
it's not like you came
with a clean slate.
It's not like you
had no technology,
and you could implement
it from scratch.
Like, what a dream.
But not the reality.
You already had teams
that were experimenting
with AI. And again,
there's forms of
AI. There's predictive,
there's generative,
there's agentic AI.
And there was many
teams that were building.
We were building
our own before
AgentForce was even born.
How did you decide
what you're going to do
with what you've already
built? Because many
organizations, like
we'd love to think that
they are, again, on
the cusp of starting
agentic AI. No, folks
are all experimenting.
What was your
approach to bringing
agent force in
against and with to
complement the work
that your teams may
have already done in
terms of building?
Well, I think, you
know, we talked about
it, about the openness
of the platform.
You know, for example,
Snowflake is a big
customer of ours. We
use them for a lot of
data that we do, and
they have a great set of
use cases that we
don't have product for.
Like, it's not our
sector, so we use them.
So the customer
zero part of
it, like using
it for ourselves,
also lays the path
for our customers to
use those same
integrations. And so when
I look around at the
vendors that we have
and maybe the vendors
that maybe we should
look for somebody
else or that, I
really look for what
is out there in the
industry that's a very
repeatable pattern.
And a lot of the
folks that we have
relationships with, you
know, we use G Suite.
It's a great, great
thing. So do many of
our customers, right?
So interoperating
with these things,
that practitioner's
mindset of the
interoperations of these is
also a big part of
it. So trying to pave
the path for not
just people to use
Salesforce, but people
to use Salesforce with,
I think is a big part
of what we try to
do on the enterprise
technology standpoint.
So we can make a
thousand mistakes and
people don't have to.
That's right. Quite
honestly. I think
that there might be
something to say, look,
yes, people already
do have a lot of
agents, whether they are
on the cusp of generative
or agentic, but
ultimately what a lot
of organizations are
recognizing that
they've got to have an
orchestration agent.
That layer of engagement,
as we've introduced
the layer cake,
you don't want your
customers or colleagues
to have to engage
with tens of thousands
of agents. So now
you've got to be
very intelligent about
where do the colleague
agents show up in
the flow of work?
Where do the customer
engagement agents
show up? Agent Force,
Agent Fabric, we
have a lot of offerings
there, but I think
it's important.
Like if you have 200
agents in your
company, and let's just
pretend they're awesome,
they're all great,
what does agent
number 157 do, and
why do I need to
talk to that agent?
You say it like
that, and it
sounds funny,
but it's true.
So, like, enablement
is a huge thing, and
therefore orchestration
is a huge thing. And
I think Slackbot's a
huge example of that for
your personal
orchestration. I think we're
working on a lot of
stuff with AgentForce.
We already have sub-agent
orchestration. We've
had sub-agent
orchestration for a while.
I think that's a huge
one, but the sort of
comprehensive enterprise
orchestration, we
kind of think at some
point you sort of
get to customer-facing
and employee-facing.
And that's kind of
where it has to go
because nobody's going
to want to remember
all of these places,
you know. And those
personal agents and
the customer-facing
agents are going to
wind up talking to each
other at some point
in time because you
as a person are going
to be like, hey,
I have a problem,
you know, where do I
go? And your personal
agent's going to be
like, okay, well,
let me go have a
conversation with the
Salesforce public agent.
And so I think that's
where orchestration
is really important.
We're working really hard
on it. It's a very
gnarly problem, but I
definitely agree with
you that whatever way
in which it's solved
by whomever winds up
being the company who
solves it first, which
is going to be us,
but whoever actually
solves it needs to do
it in this completely
multi-cloud, multi
-everything way, where we
have to be able to
make the environment
heterogeneous to
orchestrate it or it doesn't
have the utility value
that it needs to have.
And so we're absolutely
participating in
that. We're putting
things, again, into the
open standards to try
to make that easier.
But the customer
at the end of the
day, whether it's
me as a business
customer or my
customer's customer,
we all want one agent
to do the thing.
And we're just going
to have to keep
working on it to get
there. But I like
our odds. We're on
the way. I love your
swagger, and I love
how we're looking
at this to say, like
CRM was born, to
avoid the swivel
chair of 13 screens.
Agent Force and
Slackbot is born to
avoid the swivel
chair. of 13, 14,
157 agents. Amazing.
Thank you, Joe.
Thanks for having
me. Until the next
time. Until the next
stage. Yeah, exactly.
Thank you. Thanks.
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From Cost Center to Revenue Driver: The CIO's Agentic Era
From Disney and MLB to Salesforce, Joe Inzerillo knows enterprise technology. He tells Shibani Ahuja what separates AI leaders from laggards—and why the CIO role is changing forever.
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