welcome Molly
Q. Ford, Maria
Shriver, and
Matthew McConaughey.
Hello, and welcome to
Dreamforce. Thank you
so much for joining
us. I've got two of
my old friends sitting
here. We're about to
have an amazing
conversation. Yes, we are.
We were talking
backstage, and we said,
when's the last
time somebody bought
a poetry book
besides their books?
A couple people,
not many.
Anybody got two
hands over here.
five, six, seven. Now
they're just raising
their hands. Not many.
Point out of stop.
seven out of
however many.
And the New York
Times bestselling
poetry books.
And you said they
told you poetry
doesn't sell.
Right. I mean, that's,
first of all, hi,
everybody. Super
excited to see all these
beautiful faces. Thank
you for coming to listen
to us and to be here
with us. So thank you.
Yeah, they told me,
don't do a poetry
book. No one will
buy a poetry book.
And I'm sure you said
they told you the
same thing. I don't
like a writer. They
just said no one's
going to read it.
And we both got to
number one on the
New York Times. So
we're like, what?
So we were talking
about what does
that mean? What do
you think it means?
Well, it seems
to me, I think it
means that people
are looking
for some rhyme to
all the reason,
you know, some soul
to all the data,
some bass to all
the treble, some
mayonnaise to go
with that mustard.
Give me other
genres I can cover.
You look at the
evidence, you look at all
the you look at the
so-called news, you
look at the facts and
they're quite confusing.
And we're questioning
right now. What
is truth? What is a
fact? The facts are an
underdog right now.
We're redefining that.
So poetry is not about
the facts. Poetry
is what's in between
the lines and outside
the lines. And
sometimes when you seek
those ideals, they don't
need to make sense.
they need to
the soul rhymes,
the soul's not
about reason, so
they're aspirational,
and that they're
places, and time,
and space and
love stories,
and breakups, and
pains, and sufferings
but they're in a
place where it's
almost free, it's
poetry's really
free speech, thank
goodness you
know what I mean,
you cannot, in
poetry you can go,
hey I didn't put
the facts down, you
couldn't pin me down
it's a, it's not a
mirage, but it's dream
states And I think
people are looking,
sometimes we make
more sense out of
life by looking to
the rhyme instead of
the reason. I think
people are craving
some of that now.
I love it because
I think I'm a
big believer
that every single
person in here
can write poetry.
And I'm a believer
that if you take the
rules away from having
everything has to rhyme,
has to be like
Shakespeare, has to be
what you read in school.
But if you just sit
down and actually think
about what's inside
of you and let it
rip and let it come
out, you will be
astonished, I think, by who
comes out and what comes
out and how freeing
actually that is.
And I think it's such
a beautiful art form
to actually introduce
yourself to yourself.
I think it's a
beautiful art form to
introduce yourself to your
loss, to your longing,
to your childhood.
to your pain and to
your joy and that's
certainly what it was
for me was a way to
actually make sense of
the life I had led and
how I had grown up
and what it all meant
and my experience with
it and when I went
out we both also went
out on tour and people
came up to me in
droves and said this is
my story they weren't
the same at all but
they're the same and
so I think that that's
because we're all
experiencing, I think,
many of the same things.
We're experiencing
love and loss and
heartbreak and kids
and families and
eruptions and coming back
together. And if
you can write about
it, it helps you make
sense and it helps
you connect to other
people. Such a cathartic
experience. Yeah.
Because in Aya Maria,
when you're talking
about motherhood,
feeling too much or not
enough. Right. Right.
And that seems so
universal right now. I
think it does, 100%.
I mean, I certainly
started in journalism
when I was told, you're
too much, it's too much,
you know, calm down,
you know, because you
women don't act like
this, they don't
dress like this, they
don't behave, they don't
cover these stories.
So the too much narrative
was very ingrained.
I also grew up with
all brothers who
were like, you're
too much, you're too
much. Right. And so I
adopted that narrative,
actually served me
quite well in many
ways. But I think then
you're still battling,
which we all have,
like, am I enough?
Where do I show
up? How do I show
up? Why do things
happen to me? I
might not be enough.
And I think, once
again, I think
that's universal.
And I think it
happens at different
ages. It shows up in
different ways. And
I think different
decades present us with
different
challenges, different
opportunities, and
different stories. And
what I loved about
Matthew's book was that
it covered also the
decades for you.
And as did mine, I
went back in time to
understand how I got
to the place I was in
my mid-50s. I was
like, this, you know,
I can't end up on a
bathroom floor. It must
have started someplace
else. And so to
go back to understand
how I got forward.
And he also wrote about
your own experiences
when you were a
teenager and what you
were trying to make
sense out of. To look
back, has it always
been easy for you to
look over your shoulder
into your past?
That was one of the
harder things. I never
did it until this. I
didn't either. Yeah.
So green lights
and this. And boy,
it was a scary
proposition. And I pushed
it off as long as
I could. I mean,
with the green
lights, I was, I had
a treasure chest
full of journals.
And I was so scared
to open those up.
Yeah. I kept going to
it. And finally, I went
to my wife, Camilla.
And I was like, you
know, when I die, you
mind opening these and
see if something's in
there worth sharing?
And she gave me
the middle finger.
and I'm glad she did
because she's like you
do it right get out of
here and so I had to
go off but I had to
go off alone yeah and
be forced to look
at that and it was
uncomfortable at first but
now to understand where
I am where we are and
where we want to go
I've realized now that
you do need to look
back right into your
past because it's in
there anyway that's
the other thing I think
that we all come to
understand that so much
of your past is driving
your present right
and so understanding
where that's coming
from what are you
actually really frustrated
about angry about when
I'm talking to my kids
and they're erupting
about something I'm
like what are we actually
talking about here
where did you feel this
where did you first
feel this and so much
of that is operating
our system in the
present both talk to me
it sounds like oh
you're journaling but
it's more artistic
than that. You're doing
more than that. It feels
very different than
journaling to me. His
is poems and prayers.
meditations, reflections,
screaming,
wrenching, painful,
joyful, confused,
all of that.
I have journaled.
I've written news
stories. I've written
speeches. I've written
advocacy things.
But this felt very
different. And it came
from silence, actually,
which I'm a big
believer in. He
wanted to be a monk.
I wanted to be a nun.
I thought we still
had time, but she told
me there's a cutoff
for nuns. Yes, for
nuns. Probably not for
monks, not for guys,
but for women. Yes,
there's a cutoff.
I'm like, there is?
Yes, there is. So I
was told when I went
to visit a convent.
I never had those.
So poems and prayers.
You go from
playful ditties,
psalms, deeper
reflections.
What made you
want to bring that
all into
collection and then
have varied way
of doing things?
Well, I look back
and these are
poems of over 36
years of writing.
And I started writing
mainly when I was kind
of 18 and I was off
when I was in Australia
for a year. I had a
really tough year as
an exchange student.
And I was lost looking.
scrambling and didn't
have any of my safety
nets from friends to
father to family to
bounce an idea off of.
And an 18 year old man
or woman is trying to
find themselves. And
I was really trying
to find myself. So the
pen and the paper
became my friend. And I
would write 18 page
letters to myself and
return them to myself. A
19 page letter returned
to me from myself.
Yeah, I was it was
happening right the
socratic dialogue was uh
almost paralyzing me
um and so i just put
them together and you
know i've enjoyed writing
academic stuff i
love philosophy but i
was looking around at
my at myself and i was
looking at the evidence
listening to the
news and i was noticing
the shortage of things
to believe in i even
noticed that i started
to become quite cynical
myself Not quite
cynical, but I started
to become cynical.
And that's a disease
that I swore I'd
never succumb to.
And it scared me
because I started
to objectify people
a little bit, look
down my nose a
little bit, think
someone's not worthy.
And that started to
carry over, sometimes
either feeling like
I wasn't worthy or
carried over to me being
pompous and arrogant,
thinking I was so
much better. And that
scared me, and then
thankfully it ******
me off. And I said,
well, look, if you're
not finding it in the
evidence and you're
not finding the
belief in yourself and
others and in the
world and in tomorrow,
and for me and God as
well, if you're not
finding that in the
facts, go to the
dreams. Go to the poems
and the prayer, those
ideals that we can
believe in. Let's bring
the dreams back to
earth. And I usually
work the opposite
way. I go logic first,
nonfiction first to
create the fiction, to
create the dream. And
I flip the script on
this. I said, I'm not
finding it here, so
let's look higher on
higher ground and see if
we can maintain the
steam and the steel to
go, let's fight to
bring that ideal back
down to real life. I
love that, finding the
humanity. I want to talk
about themes because
both of you have very
vulnerable themes
in your book. Matthew
from faith, resilience,
gratitude, and Maria,
family, love and
loss. So how was this
sharing this struggle?
How is it helping you
connect with others?
Well, I think when
you write something
vulnerable and I think
honest, people can
tell. And I think
people have that in
their own lives. And
so I found a lot of
connection by sharing
my story, what I had
been through. And I
think that everybody
in this audience no
doubt has experienced
heartbreak in some
way, shape or form.
Everybody here has
grown up in a family
and tried to find their
way in the family.
It doesn't mean,
you know, it doesn't
matter that the family
is mine or yours or
whatever, but we're
all trying to find
our identity within
the family. And so all
of these themes, I
think, are universal.
So I was trying
to find my way
in a very public,
famous family.
I was experiencing
heartbreak. I was
trying to figure out
how to heal myself,
reclaim an identity
separate from
work, separate
from a marriage,
figure out who I was,
what I stood for. And
I think that's a very
universal thing. And
I think it calls people
into community when
you share that. And
I had grown up in a
family that, you know,
was very steeped in
politics and asked people
for votes. But I always
had a sense that
there was a division
between what they were
doing and the, quote,
people that they were
leading. And I was
always looking for a way
to connect to people.
And I think that was
always something that
I wanted to do
differently than others in
my family. And I
wanted to lead my own
life as opposed to
a life that had been
preordained for me. And
that was a challenge.
And I think it's a
challenge for anybody.
Just mine might have
been more public.
My upbringing was more
public. My downfall
was more public. And I
think my resurrection
was really of my own
making. And I think
everybody can do that.
And everybody's capable.
And everybody probably
in this room has
done that in their own
way, shape, or form.
And Matthew, faith,
resilience, gratitude.
How did these
values show up?
And what really
surprised you?
I've, my faith has
always been somewhat
healthy. I've
had times where
I've had my agnostic
years of my life
where I was so
needed to grab on to
just self-reliance.
No, it's my
responsibility. It's
what I do. Look in the
mirror. You're
responsible. If you win,
yep. If you lose,
yep, that's on you.
And I'd spent a
couple years in that.
And I tell you what,
one of the great
feelings was coming
out of that when I came
back to faith and
belief in God for me.
And that's a
scary reentry.
You know, if
you're a believer,
you can come
back and go, oh,
am I about to
have to take some
penance here for
walking away?
Which, you know, if
you're a believer and
have faith, you usually
find out that, no,
the doorknob was
always, you never needed
the key to the
doorknob. All you had
to do was grab the
knob and turn it.
But I came back,
and what I felt was
my faith and the
prime mover, the
way maker, God was
going, thank you.
there relying
on faith only.
And, you know, I didn't
conjure that idea.
It was a feeling
that I had because I
came back, and I was
welcomed right back to
my faith. But I was
also like, I felt
spiritually, it was
going, we got to have our
hands on the wheel,
free will and fate.
You know, so that's
where I started
to notice that self
-reliance and faith
are not necessarily
contradictory.
You know, as far
as gratitude, I was
raised on gratitude,
baseline gratitude.
You know, you came into
the breakfast table
in my house and you
had anything less than
a big smile on your
face saying, good
morning, mom. she would
grab us by the arm, take
us back to our bed,
put us back on the
cover to say, don't
you come back to the
kitchen until you're
ready to see the roses and
the vases of the dust
on the table. Whoa.
You know, your mom,
my mom, I need another
pair of shoes. Look
at all these holes in
my shoes. You want more
new shoes? I'm going
to introduce you to
the boy with no feet.
Baseline
gratitude, right?
And it was
demanded in us.
You know, resilience.
That was something
I got from my
mother, and I noticed
it stuck with me
through my life. Um,
endurance and resilience
to, to, to how
quickly you can deal
with a problem and how
quickly you can go and
understand and believe
this too shall pass.
Let's get on. Let's
try it again or try
it a different way.
Those were
ingrained in me.
And I've noticed
that, um,
you know, that
I've, I've redefined
them some, some
ways in my life.
If I must say the
resilience part,
I've learned, like,
you didn't get to have
a winter, so speak,
in my house. It was
always summer. You
better be thankful for
everything. Well, if
you're thankful for
everything, right, all
the time, you're a repeat
offender of all the
stuff you're ********
up on, right? Because
you step in the pothole
and you trip, and
you go, get up, dust
yourself off, and you
start running again.
And you never stop to
look at the pothole
and go, why do I
keep stepping in that
**** thing? You will
step in it again the
next time around over
and over and over.
So I did go to my mom
about 10 years ago.
Mom, I said, Mom, I
updated this resilience
thing. I've learned
to stop a little
bit and pause and
go, why do I keep
stepping in that same
pile of you-know-what?
Whereas you
taught us to just
get up and say
that, you-know
-what, part of
my wardrobe now.
just have a look.
Why do we step in
it? Back off a
minute. Maybe some
people pass you in
the race while you're
having a look at
why you did that.
But next time around
the bend, you don't
step in the same pile
of you-know-what.
I think that's
interesting because I was
raised by a similar
kind of a mother who
didn't, you know, we
don't talk about feelings.
So somebody just
died. Let's not talk
about it. Let's carry
on. You know, let's
go out on the boat.
And I'm like, well,
wait a minute. But
nope, nope, we're just
going to carry on, and
I don't want to hear
anything out of you
and just keep going.
And so I went into a
profession and I started
writing about feelings
and trying to go,
what do I feel? What
do you feel? What does,
the first book I wrote
was about heaven.
What are, you know,
what happens when
we die? What is grief?
Help me understand
this thing, this
journey called life,
because I was raised
by someone who
didn't want to talk
about anything. And I
think many of us
were, right? You have
parents from a
different generation who
are like, just be
grateful, you know,
you didn't live
through the Depression.
Just be grateful
we don't talk about
this. You don't talk
about that. And I
think we're in a
different time. Parents
are different.
Kids are different.
And I think actually
at a conference like
this, it's a beautiful
thing to be talking
about this because so
much is about technology
and AI. And I'm a
big believer that our
humanity, I hope we
don't lose it in the
process, that we no
longer have to be the
smartest person in the
room because AI's got
that covered. But how
can we be the best
humans that society
has ever produced? What
makes us? It's our
feelings, our grief,
our love, our longing.
And that's, in a way,
I think why these
books did well, because
they're speaking to
a moment when people
are overwhelmed. and
when they're told that
AI is going to take
everything from them
or change everything
for them, and people
have feelings. Absolutely.
And I think that's
what poetry does well.
It gives you a place
to put your feelings
on the paper. You
don't have to publish
them. But I hope that
this moment brings us
back to our humanity
and helps us look at
the story that's in
a way hiding in plain
sight, which is what
you bring or you bring
or you bring to the
table that no AI machine
can ever duplicate.
Because for me, both
of you, institutional
to my life, right?
You're storytellers.
Whether you told the
story through journalism
and reporting, or you
told it through film,
you're storytelling,
and now this is just
a new avenue for you
both. So when someone
tells you your poetry
is not going to sell
or read, I'm like, do
they know who you are?
We want to hear
these stories. We
trust you as a
storyteller. We
adore you as a
storyteller. So can
we ask you to
read us something?
Would that be
possible? Yeah.
Come on, y'all. We
want a little poetry.
I'm going to ask
you to start first.
I am Maria. Is
there something
you'd like to share
with us? Okay.
Let's see. What did
I say I was going to
write? Oh, here. I'm
going to read this.
My poems are kind
of long and painful.
But, okay, this is
called Dear Life.
I've been wanting to
talk to you lately
to tell you you are
not what I planned.
You may not give a
****, but I thought
you should know
you're not what I
expected. I thought
as long as I had my
compass pointing north,
all would be good.
But I learned that
my heart doesn't
know north. My life
has led me on a path
written in invisible
ink, longing for
more from a soul
I didn't know yet.
So here we are, life,
without a compass,
without a map, only my
heart guiding me forward.
It wonders, am I
ready to be known in
a deep and new way?
Am I strong enough to
open my heart and
divulge what lies within?
Life, you say that's
what you're all about.
Let's see how the
universe responds when
I pull back the curtain
on my soul it's one
of the the fun things
about poetry is you
can personalize seemingly
inanimate things
or the most intimate
thing like you wrote
a right one to life
dear life dear life as
i had planned yeah
who's who who has a
life that as they planned
right i mean that's
a bar dear life you
weren't as i had planned
no thank god for
you thank god i have
one thank god absolutely
thank you thank you
matthew yeah i'll
read one i personalize
something here as well
it's called uh memory
i i wrote this you
know people come up
to you or not even
come up to you you're
trying to remember
something sometimes you're
playing grab *** with
your thoughts right
And sometimes that's
a good thing, because
you kind of catch it.
Would you say grab
***? Grab ***. With
your thoughts? With
your thoughts,
trying to remember
something. Got it, got
it, got it. I'm going
to try that tonight.
I'm playing grab ***
with my thoughts, and
I was like. Right?
And sometimes it's
good, because you
catch it, and you go,
I'm glad I stayed on
it. But other times,
I think we need to
go, which I told, I
said this to myself
one day in front
of a friend, and he
started laughing when
I said it. I said,
I can't remember
this thing, can't
remember this thing.
I said, oh, forget it.
I was there. I was there.
And he goes, you were
there. I was like,
what's the big deal with
memory? I was there.
Why are we so
obsessed with this
memory thing?
You were there.
So this is called
memory. You had
to be there. Yeah,
you were there.
Unlike her cousin,
Conscience Dares, she
patiently waits and
she always cares.
Judging us not
for our neural
A graceful poet,
she finds us lost
and greets us
with reflection.
She rhymes us with
reminding times
so we can make
the connection.
Just and true,
she's deja vu
and surprises
us with chances.
She flies and floats
from clouds to
boats, and with our
dreams, she dances.
Always near and
never far, she's
a teacher, always
right behind us.
On our shoulder as we
greet each day, when
we take the time,
she's right beside us.
Memory never forgets,
even though we did.
And his poems
are prayers?
Yes. And his
prayers are poems?
Memories, she dances.
Poems are also
prayers that rhyme.
That's our time, y'all.
That's it, y'all?
that was it i know
we could keep doing
this for hours
but matthew mcconaughey
maria shriver
